BANK FEES & BANKING IN CANADA

Editor's note: this material is presented in chronological order -if you have limited time -info on derivatives is near the end starting on the update dated may 20th - we begin with a more general intro to Canadian Banks...Have fun! We are offering an alternative view of generally accepted perceptions that Canadian Banks are the best in the world. (take your BP pills first)

Warning: The facts, opinions and conclusions offered here require that you perform due diligence before using them for any investment decisions. We are disputing the widely held opinion that Canadian Banks are the strongest in the world and that there are only very minimal risks of bank failures. Our basis for this conclusion is the critical state of the 1.4 quadrillion dollar world dervivative market and Canadian Banks exposure to it.

Banking and Bullshit really go together. I once worked in a bank. This was before computers. When computers entered the scene the bankers saw the great potential of computer generated service charges and specifically their new found ability to collect and hide them. It was like magic! They went for it and made billions of dollars of additional profits while completely automating the process and firing staff. Lets consider how the old system worked. After that lets take a contrarian view of Canadian Banks and see where it might lead. If nothing else it is always interesting to rethink what we already know to be true. We either prove that we are correct or learn something new!

The old banking system, prior to approximately 1974 was all manual. People had to post service charges to each account. Often, calculations were required. It was a tremendous amount of work. They used devices like old Monroe posting machines. But then along came computers. They could ding the accounts automatically and do any necessary calculations automatically in short they removed the heavy labour cost and made even small service charges practical and highly desirable. And service charges were hidden as individual charges on customer statements so often the customer never knew how much they were paying. 

It got even better for the banks when the automatic teller machine (ATM) was introduced. Canada has more ATM's per capita than any other country on the planet. Now the bank didn't need to supply a teller -the machine did the work 24 hours a day with no lunch or coffee breaks. No benefits or pensions. And to their shock and great happiness banks soon discovered they could charge a buck or two per transaction and the customers would pay it to take out their own money!! The banks made billions. In fact they made as much on poor folk taking out a twenty for the weekend as they did on a richer person taking out $500 for a fancy night on the town or to buy some crack or BC Bud. It was a small charge for the richer folks but a huge percentage for the poor folks. In fact if a person went to another bank they could pay $2 to the ATM and then $2 to the home bank for a total of $4 to take out $20 from their account. For those not good in math this is a 20% commission to take ones own money which is totally ridiculous. It can get even worse if you take your money out at say a Casino or foreign country because then your total ATM fees for a small $20 withdrawal could be as high as 30% or more!  

 

Some bank customers have unreasonable expectations...

The banks also do wonders on converting to and from US dollars. They provide essentially no or minimal service and make a bundle on foreign exchange. The banks delight in coming up with new fees and there seems no end to the patience of the Canadian consumer who politely (and stupidly) pays and may not even complain. Now again there will be some of you who doubt me. Tell me how much you paid in total bank fees last year and I will take everything back. You don't know do you! That's the whole idea! And that's the way the banks want to keep it.

I won't even get into credit card fees and the so called "prime rate" That's out and out bludgeon you over the head robbery. I don't think the situation will ever change so the best approach for citizens is likely to buy bank stock and share the booty. A lot of our pension plans hold bank stock. Banks are very good at removing money from their customers.  That's called "Banking". Why not profit from it? 

Personally, I think that one of the biggest problems with the Banking industry is the legislation which regulates the industry. In Canada  this is called the Bank Act. Originally passed in 1871 it gets reviewed every five years or so. Its my opinion that the Bank Act should be used to ensure that Bankers operate within a fair and reasonable framework both to protect their customers and the industry as a whole.

And if you think that the Government is regulating the banking industry to limit their gouging of the public think again. In fact in this environment the Superintendent of Financial Institutions is actually championing the banks and insurance companies to ensure they make maximum profits when dealing with the Canadian consumer. Review our link to the Toronto Star article below for more details. 

Banks now sell mortgage and loan insurance. They make damn good money writing up these policies for large insurance companies in Canada. One might think that this profit making activity is well outside the field of banking. I think it is! What is happening is that the banks are charging absolutely outrageous fees to customers for this form of insurance and even worse the restrictions on the policies allow the insurance company to dispute paying on most claims. For an excellent treatment of mortgage insurance at Canadian banks check out the CBC's Market Place program with Wendy Mesley (one of my favourites!) My point here is that if the insurance benefits were actually used to pay off the bank mortgages or loans that would be fair but instead the bank has set up a new revenue stream outside of banking and is making more money selling the insurance. What this means is that your effective interest on your bank loans, overdraft charges and credit card rates is even higher! It should ,in my opinion, be revenue neutral on insurance sales or in fact they are a defacto insurance company operating under a bank charter. They are protected by competition because they have a customer who is trapped. There are no alternatives to the rates they charge. Frankly, I am really surprised the media is not onto this.

Canadian banks have made billions off of selling overpriced insurance to clients that seldom pays when customers make a claim. Despite having honest employees the banks are allowed to gorge themselves on this type of activity so...they do! Its disgusting. Its Bullshit! Or more politely -it is not fair.

It even gets worse. Our federal and provincial government charges us taxes on money we use to pay off interest charges so again the effective interest charges are even higher again! In the USA they better understand this process and much of the interest charged an American citizen is actually a tax deduction so they don't get double taxed. Our Canadian government actually has an incentive for even higher bank interest charges because they collect their taxes on the funds we use to pay off our bank interest. This has never been reported in the Canadian media. 

The result is that the average Canadian has absolutely no concept of how much money their interest charges are costing them every year. Do you know yours?? But if you were rolling up all your interest charges to deduct against your taxes you would know wouldn't you? That won't happen because our entire financial system is built up on maximizing the amount of money charged to citizens for their loans and interest charges. That is one reason our banks are so healthy and why Canadians spend such a huge amount of their income on interest related charges.

To my knowledge there is only ONE person in the Government a Liberal Senator Ms. Pierette Ringuette who is very actively working on behalf of the taxpayer trying her very best to bring down the interest charges Canadians pay. Well done Senator and I wish more were like you. 

 

 

 

Now for the good news!  Surprisingly, there is a way of avoiding some of the more serious bullshit in banking. Get to know and talk to a banker. Branch bankers are honest types and have professional ethics. They are great people and are there to help you.  I know, I once worked in a bank. As a general rule they will help you but you need to ask the right questions.

Not happy with the service charges? Let them know about it and ask for alternatives. Banks are very competitive and offer a large range of services and it could be nothing more complicated that you having the wrong type of account. Don't expect grade "A" service if you keep thirty five cents in your account -you will be treated as such- a small customer. My experience in banking was that some of the smallest customers had very unreasonable expectations on the level of service they could expect while some of our bigger customers were quite reasonable people but demanded that higher level of service -which they got!

If you are in a situation where credit card debt has got you by the throat then visit your friendly banker and most of the time they will have something that will help. Again you need to ask the right questions and be honest with your situation. If you are credit worthy and you probably are if you have lots of credit cards then a trip to the banker could save you thousands of dollars and greatly improve your life by reducing stress. 

It would be grossly unfair to end this without making a note of the relative safety of the Canadian Banking system. Yes it is highly regulated by government but there have been no bank failures since approximately 1923. In fact it is very interesting to note that even in the Great Depression of 1929-1933 that while there were over 9000 small banks that failed in the USA there were exactly no bank failures in Canada. Its amazing really but there it is.  The five big banks in Canada represent some of the most secure and stable business organizations in Canada. Contrast this with other countries including the USA where modern bank failures are not an entirely uncommon event as they are in Canada. There were recently bank failures in Germany and the even the Swiss Bank USB had big write downs.  The largest Internet Bank -Netbank from the USA went bankrupt in 2007. That's the good side of the story.

The bad side of the story is -how could a Canadian bank ever loose money when they charge the rates and fees that they have been charging? A Canadian bank charter is a license to print money in Canada. So all that financial security is not necessarily coming from astute business conduct more from ripping off the public big time. They hand out credit cards paying them 19% or more and give you 1/2% for your money on deposit. They charge you outrageous ATM fees to get access to your money. Nice. If a small business person attempted to operate like that here they would be tossed into jail. 

Here are some good books on bank failures in the USA should you wish to learn more about the topic. Anyone that does any banking in the USA should be at least aware of what is going on. 

 

And not to be left out here are some books pertaining to banking in Canada:

 

So much for the whining. Canucks are good at that. We do it all the time. But it doesn't get us very far towards a solution it just allows us to adapt to the problems. So I took this to the next step. I assigned my best employee to write a book on business and tell all. I gave her a month to do it. And son of a gun if in a month later it wasn't sitting on my desk! Amazing really. (CEO's can do this sort of thing -don't try it at home.) Personally I think Marcie's book is ..."the best ever written on business in Canada." Not to put too fine a point on it, there are none better! 

One last thing about banks. When I worked in them and nothing has changed over the years-I found that branch bankers were honest hardworking people you could trust. So I don't blame them for some of the business practices of banks but I do blame the system which regulates them and sets the rules about how they can operate. As an example paying a 20% commission to take out $20 of your own money from an ATM is frankly highway robbery and its especially unfair to those with small accounts. If you have a good credit history and are paying 24% on a bank credit card when prime is 1/2%% then that too is highway robbery.

 I rest my case but suggest you consider investing in our book. on business in Canada. It will pay for itself many times over! It will be the best investment you ever made. Makes a great gift too!

 

 

 

Update November 15/08 As I suspected the Canadian banks were NOT in the fine shape the government claimed they were in and in full panic mode they have now invested another 50 billion dollars to try and prop them up as the credit market in Canada was frozen. The Asset Backed Commercial Paper sold by some banks is STILL frozen and investors thinking they had invested in rock solid safe investments still cannot get access to their money. What I find particularly annoying is the lying that went on from the present government to get elected. They tricked 22% of the eligible electorate to vote for them while 22% didn't bother to vote and the remaining 56% voted for somebody else. They continue to lie about the strength of the Canadian banking system and economy and pump taxpayer's money into it while banks fleece taxpayers with exceptionally high interest rate spreads (bank prime vs rate charged) on credit cards and loan and overdraft rates. Our dollar is now in the toilet too falling just after the election. For many Canadian families the recession is here now.

 

Update January 6th 2009 I just came across a bad example of how banks can fleece the customer when they are allowed to operate outside of their main charter area. They do this legally by buying or operating with other companies in the financial sector.  To give you two examples I offer insurance policies that banks offer while selling you a loan or mortgage and what happens when a bank buys an on-line stock market brokerage. We are just starting to research this now. In the case of the on-line brokerage we are looking at E*Trade Canada which according to our research at the Better Business Bureau is not registered with them and has a C- rating due to several complaints against them and their refusal to supply business information to the BBB. This company is owned by the Bank of Nova Scotia. They will actually charge you a $25 quarterly "low activity fee" and their solution to avoid it includes the suggestion that you keep a $5000 cash balance in your trading account. Which would be mind boggling stupid for the customer. More to follow on this but if you deal with E*trade Canada you have been warned. (Editor's note they changed their name -likely because the old brand was a bit tarnished)

In the case of insurance polices on bank loans and mortgages the CBC program MarketPlace did some research on that one several episodes back and discovered that the type of mortgage coverage that one bank was selling was almost impossible to collect on. The bank and the insurance company was pocketing nearly all of the money. If anyone out there has already researched this problem and wishes to add to the page just send me an e-mail and I will incorporate your findings to share with our readers. I would be happy to include it under your by-line or anonymously if you wish. 

The mindset of a Canadian bank is to maximize it's profits from each of it's customers and this is something that is not immediately apparent to the average Canadian who trusts their banks to provide them with an honest and fair service. Again lots of very nice people work at our banks. The problem is not with them it is with the policies the banks apply to generate profits which while legal are often very unethical in nature.  The CIBC once ran into a problem with Farm Loans many years ago when they loaned on asset value rather than the farmer's ability to pay and they ended up owning lots of farms. They have since modified their loan policies but this is an example of what can happen when bank polices are set against the consumer not with them. 

There is nothing wrong in my mind with making a fair profit when you offer goods and services to the market. The problems start when you make unfair profits such as those on Canadians withdrawing small amounts from ATM machines or having to pay for loan insurance that never pays when they need it or giving young adults large credit card limits until they get completely ridden with debt and are unable to pay and are charged even higher interest rates. The spread between the Bank of Canada rate and the rate bankers charge for loans and overdrafts is ridiculously large. I do think our financial system can work effectively and efficiently if there are good regulations in place which sets out the ground rules. Right now that is not happening.

Update May 13/2009 The credit card rip offs from Canadian Banks are so apparent now that the Minister of Finance will be introducing a new Law on the fees that Canadian Banks can charge. Details are light at this point. But this step supports the points made on this webpage. Also a Canadian Senator has taken on the Credit card industry and is pushing for changes. 

To underline the points made here about the actual strength of Canadian banks over 100 billion dollars of government funds have been allocated to take loans off Canadian Bank books so that they will loosen their lending practices and get credit flowing again. Well they took the money and failed to deliver credit to the market! This is outrageous because the are refusing credit to the very taxpayers that supported them with billions of dollars. Nice. Most Canadians are oblivious to what is actually going on. 

12 Billion has been allocated in the Auto loan sector because our banks have been unwilling to loan there. What this all means is that Canadian banks are NOT as strong as the government has been saying and it has had to step in and prop them up. Oh and the Asset Backed Commercial Paper fiasco mentioned here previously is still a mess. After 18 months of despair 32 Billion was restructured for individual investors, however commercial customers have taken a huge bath of the value of the assets to as much as 35 cents on the dollar to date. Our banks were directly involved in that one too. 

May 13 Update  Money loosing ING Bank Canada the one that advertises constantly to "save your money" looks like it is going to be sold. My guess is that one of the other charter banks will buy it out at fire sale prices. That is how it is done in Canada. Our banks never fail they are just swallowed by another Canadian bank to maintain the myth about Canadian bank invincibility. We will see what happens!

May 20/2009 Update  As with all banks there is a huge problem with derivative investments that has been effectively shielded from the average depositor. Essentially the problem is that banks no longer trust each other because the actual value of derivative investments is not what is on the books. Nobody really knows who is holding which so called toxic investments. 

May 20/2009 Update  I was attempting to keep this page relatively simple so that the widest audience could understand it. That was a mistake. The real problem with Canadian and other banks today in my opinion is their highly leveraged derivative investments backed up by hedging which in normal situations nils out the risk. I know that is a mouthful. Derivatives are highly leveraged so to avoid a catastrophic loss banks hedge their risks with some other bank called a counterparty. As long as the other bank is fine if there is a problem with the underling or the underlying investment on which the derivative is based then it's no problemo. The problem is that derivatives don't show on balance sheets and so nobody really knows who the counterparty is and what the solvency of the counterparty is. Now for the really bad news.

Canadian banks have assets in the hundreds of billions of dollars and this is what the government has been bragging about. Our banks are required to maintain a capital ratio of 1 to 18 compared to 1 to 26 for US banks and a scary 1:61 for European banks. That and the fact we have a well established branch banking system that is diversified is all on the good side.  Unfortunately they also have OTC derivative investments in the trillions of dollars and government is horrified because should we see some failures here the banks will suddenly become insolvent. You aren't being told about this. I think that is criminal. 

This is the real reason why the US does not want a large bank to fail. They may act as counterparties to trillions of dollars of hedge funds and the risk there is cascading failures of banks and large financial institutions and a melt down of hideous proportions. 

Unfortunately the media is not trained to ask the type of questions that need to be asked here. So they can't report back to the public just what is going on other than general ways and blaming it all on the sub prime mortgage failures. These failures are just a small part of the overall problem and risk. 

I am not saying you should panic. All I am saying here is that there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO BE SMUG ABOUT THE SO CALLED STRENGTH OF CANADA'S BANKS. And we are tied to the American economy so if their financial institutions go belly up so will ours likely the same day. And as we found out with Bear Stearns and Leahman Brothers it could all happen in a matter of hours. You could go to sleep rich and wake up with no ATM card and with your assets all gone. That's how safe our banks are in this environment. It happened in Iceland. And all because of derivative problems. 

The fact that Canadian banks maintain more capital reserves than US banks misses the entire point that the trillions of dollars of derivatives our banks hold could completely trash the banks if failures occur. And as you read this the USA has stepped in to prop up the very large US banks that we depend on as counter parties to our derivative investments. Anyway don't believe me do your own research and I have included some very useful links below. You won't read about this in the media and your Conservative government won't tell you about it either. 

I have tried to make this as readable as possible but now is the time to try and plough through some other sources on the derivative problem and I have assembled some excellent links for you below. Good luck and thanks for visiting!

Update May 24th 2009 I was asked to explain Finance Minister Flaherty reluctance to cap credit card rates. Understandably this would be a tremendously popular move with consumers and would likely win the next election for the Conservatives so why wouldn't they do it??? As I see it Mr. Flaherty has very likely been told in very plain terms that if he moves to cap credit card rates that he risks a catastrophic banking loss and even possible failure of some Canadian banks. Just so that you understand this statement I have no proof or reports the Minister was told this. It is simply my best guess.  I base it on the following logic. 

Derivatives are developed based in part on credit card balances which in turn are based on receiving a projected return from the balances over a long period of time. The bankers know that a given percentage of credit card accounts to do not get paid off every month but instead accrue huge amounts of interest some as high as 29%. So what they would do is use that as collateral for a derivative which they would then sell. If the underlying asset suddenly became worthless as in the case of a credit card rate cap then the bank would also hedge it's investments. Now the counterparty could be a US bank on the verge of going under. We don't know because these types of investments do not appear on the balance sheets - they are off balance sheet items. 

So to summarize the highly leveraged derivative investment suddenly becomes worthless the bank reverts to it's counterparty for the hedge investment which promptly goes belly up. The bank is now out so much money that it becomes insolvent and fails. 

That is my best guess why the Minster did not act. He would never admit it of course because the government does not want the public to know the truth regarding the derivative problem and Canadian banks. 

Again folks I could be wrong. Check it out yourself. But that is my best guess. 

Update May 26th/2009 I was asked for my opinion on the CDIC the crown corp that guarantees certain types of bank deposits to $100,000 per account. First you may like to review this article in the Globe and Mail to get you thinking between the lines. The CDIC can borrow up to 15 Billion dollars which sounds great until you consider how many billions are in Canadina bank accounts. Recent legislation also allows them to from a type of transition bank to take over failed banks which when you think of it is quite strange given that our government has been bragging to us how strong our banks are. 

The CDIC was formulated to provide insurance against relatively minor bank failures NOT the meltdown of major banks. What happens if the trillions of dollars of off balance sheet OTC Derivative investments fail and Canadian banks collapse when counterparties to these investments are found to be insolvent?  There is absolutely nothing mentioned about possible bank meltdowns at the CDIC site. 

My opinion on the CDIC is that they would be unable to pay depositors should a major bank derivative based failure occur. The reason that they were given the ability to form a transition bank I think is because an effort would be made to separate the failed bank's deposit liabilities from it's failed derivative liabilities. I am not sure if they can do this. By this I mean they would take over the deposit accounts of the bank and use their lending limits to carry on business with these customers but not pay them out.

You need to realize that unlike a lot of companies a bank maintains two sets of books. One set of books relates to your accounts which are assets to you and liabilities to the bank and the other set relates to banking as a business with all their assets and liabilities with the exception of the off balance sheet derivatives which are accounted for in a different way. Most branch bankers have absolutely no clue of what is going on with bank finances at the corporate or head office level. If you asked your local banker what a credit default swap was he would pee his pants. (ok that was a joke!)  

Now the CDIC "transition bank" might work IF there was no run on the bank and IF several banks did not fail at the same time. If the question is -Can I trust the CDIC to protect my deposits if one bank fails my answer would be yes. If the question is-" would the CDIC be able to protect my deposits if there were general failures in our Banking system?" my answer would be an unequivocal "no". Again that is just my opinion.

As an example of bank nationalization you might wish to review the wikipedia entry for Northern Rock Bank of the UK. 

There is a possibility that there will be no bank failures in Canada and who can complain against that -not me. My point is that we Canadians have been fed a line of bull about the relative safety of our banks and have been led to believe that bank failures are a very remote and most unlikely possibility.

The purpose of this website is to uncover BS and suggest a better way and that is what we are doing here. A better way is to be honest about the risks so that we can all in our own way adjust our lives to meet them.

Would you act any differently if you thought that instead of your deposits being 100% protected against any loss that they were only protected against single bank failures? And is your trust in the financial health of your bank the same knowing that they have trillions of dollars of questionable OTC derivative investments in off balance sheet accounts?  Those are investments you may not even have known about before reading this article? 

And why isn't your government or banker telling you anything about these problems? 

As the Corporate Secretary says " Whatever!" 

Read her book. It will cheer you up and explain how business works in Canada.  I maintain that every day above ground is good so nothing really bothers me much. The cup is nearly full, the sun is out, Harper and wrong way Flarherty are like a bad dream fading fast, and it's another great day!

The Corporate Secretary has written what her Publisher describes as "The best book ever written on business in Canada." 

We made some mistakes when first promoting Marcie's book but we think we have it right now. So we don't do this anymore....Amazing how sensitive Authors can get sometimes...

UPDATE OCTOBER 10/2008  

There has been a melt down of world financial systems and economies since originally writing this article so I better bring it up to date. The Conservatives have been bragging about how wonderful the Canadian Banking system is and how robust it is and how safe we all are. That's basically a spin placed on facts to hopefully win the election in a few days. Here is the reality: 

1. Canadian Banks are not as strong as we are led to believe. Main sources of money are the excessive service charges and high interest rates they charge on credit cards. These charges are directly related to the economy and will be greatly reduced as the economy slips, as loans default and as financial transactions reduce. 

2. Emergency assistance was required to bail out banks from some of their mortgage investments to the tune of 25 billion dollars. The government lied about the significance of the bail out. They claimed it was a paper transaction and that taxpayers would incur no additional risk as the loans were already insured by the CHMC and that in fact they inferred the government might actually make a profit holding the investments for an average of five years. The neglected to point out that the underlying property values associated with the mortgages are plummeting and that risk is actually being increased while the banks walk off with a cash infusion and reduced risk. The taxpayer pays. But the taxpayer gets no access to credit the very reason for the cash infusion in the first place!

3. To infer that Canadian Banks which are small by world standards are the strongest banks in the world overlooks the fact that many world banks are giants in comparison and are more powerful than Canadian banks. Canadian banks have been unable to operate successfully outside of Canada because they cannot compete with foreign banks. The Canadian market is very easy for them as they have been ripping off their customers here for decades. But outside Canada banks are more competitive. Something to think about. 

4. With the meltdown of American banks- Canadian banks are looking south to pick them up at fire sale prices. One example is the  Bank of Nova Scotia as it attempts to buy Ohio-based National City Corp which could be purchased for under 4 Billion which is only ten cents on the dollar. Its priced that low for a very good reason and should Canadian banks go shopping for bargains invariably they will learn the hard way that Canadian Banking does not work in the USA. The TD and Royal are actively looking at distressed US banks. I think that they will find that recapitalizing US banks using their Canadian customer base to provide the capital will be a very bad plan. It will weaken the Canadian banking system and lead to failures here which are normally hidden in our system by the use of the merger process. 

5. Its entirely possible for panic to lead to a run on a Canadian bank or Banks and the failure of banks here. Nobody likes to talk about this or even admit that it is possible but in fact it is entirely possible and likely as the economy continues to spiral down and stock market fortunes are lost. 

That pretty much brings us up to date in Banking in Canada. There are a lot of very nervous bankers in Canada these days. And the public is not being told what the dangers really are. 

 

 

Cheers!

Update May 26th 09 Finance Minister Flarhety is quite the weasel when it comes for putting a spin on bad news. He has been excusing himself for not placing a cap on credit card rates by pompously stating that Canadians have access to many low interest credit cards and he infers that they just need to get off their bums and pick out a lower interest card. Thus the logic that there is no real need to place a cap on interest rates. Bullshit!

I did some research and yes there are some lower interest cards out there but there is a big catch. The card interest is keyed to your credit rating. If you are maxed out on say a high interest Canadian tire card you can't just amble over to the TD and get their low interest card as Mr. Flaherty infers. First you need to qualify for the lower rate and if you are carrying a large balance on your credit cards already -they won't give it to you. Or to put it another way the only ones who will quality for lower credit card rates are the affluent Canadians who have money. So Minister get your facts right before you use bullshit to explain why you did nothing to help millions of Canadians who are overwhelmed with credit card interest rates as the prime rate for banks drops to practically zero. And where is the media and why are they letting this Minister get away with these types of silly statements?

Update May 29/2009  Some bad news from the Royal Bank of Canada one of Canada's largest banks as it's Q2 results were a loss of 50million compared to last year's results of a profit of 928 Million. This is quite significant. For more details go to the bloomberg site.   My opinion is that Canadian banks can only do well in Canada because of the Bank Act which gives them a license to print money. They have a much more competitive situation in the USA where customers demand more value. In this case the RBC purchased the Raleigh Bank with 441 branches in the USA and in one year managed to go from a $38 million dollar profit to a 1.13 billion dollar loss - pretty much proving my point. You decide. 

Also note that absolutely not a word was said about derivative investments being a part of the loss. The word was not mentioned. 

Also not mentioned was the fact that RBC will likely not being paying any taxes in Canada thanks to this loss in the USA. So guess what Canadian taxpayers??? You are subsidizing the ex Raleigh Bank customers. If you can't make that connection then there is not much I can do for you. Lets see if anybody in the media picks it up.

As you might expect when any organization releases terrible news like this they put their best spin on it. We need an intelligent analytical media to give us the truth. It will be also interesting to see if our Conservative government continues to pretend that our banks are rock solid. Time will tell.

In summary the idea here was to get you to re think your opinions on the Canadian Banking system. We will all have our opinions. And there are a lot of powerful interests spinning information making it difficult to understand what is really going on.  I have identified some very interesting links below which you might find interesting. Is Canada going to become another Iceland? I don't think so but no guarantees either!

June 30/2009 Update Moody's downgrades Canadian Banks!  Like we didn't warn you about this!  Read it and weep. 

I have had some evil thoughts about ponzi schemes and Canadian banks based in part on the press related to the Madoff case. When you consider the capital requirements and if you look at it from a critical point of view the scheme begins to take shape. I don't have the time to develop the idea but it is worth considering. 

July 1/2009  Now some more bad news about Canadian Banks and further support for the views I have been expressing here. It seems that the Banker Magazine released its top 1000 banks in the world and Canadian Banks which our Finance Minister has touted as the strongest in the world failed to make it in the top 30. In fact the CIBC made it as the 15th worst bank by losses. 

July 20th Update  I noticed a couple of points worth mentioning. First of all the media and the government are being especially quiet on the multi trillion dollar derivative investments of Canadian banks. It is as if nobody wants to talk about it. Secondly, I notice that this webpage is getting a lot of traffic from banking centres around the world including Canada. Oh lets toss in a third one -President Obama's approval rating has just fallen below 60% and is headed south as his stimulus plans do not appear to be working. One naturally wonders if the financial slide continues will the derivative monster come out to play and destroy our Canadian banks in the process? Other world banks face the same question as their health is all predicated on the recovery of the US economy. 

September 1st 2009 Update I see that President Obama's approval rating has dropped another 9 points to 51%. I also noted that Canadian banks declared excellent profits. Lets think about that. How could the banks possibly have excellent profits when over a million Canadians are unemployed, when business is suffering, plants are closed, retail sales are down.  The ONLY answer folks is that the Canadian banks have been fleecing their customers with the huge spreads between bank prime and what they charge us. And this is done with the full support of the Government to ensure that our banks appear strong. Why the media is not picking up on this fact - I don't know. We have been reporting it here and our online poll is reporting what Canadians really think about our banks. And I might add that some very powerful interests are closely monitoring this page and website. It makes me a bit nervous actually. But facts are facts and that's what we report here. We don't do "spin".  Check out our links for some very thought provoking ideas and facts. 

Summary    Canadian banks are not perfect nor are they as strong as the government makes them out to be. However you can receive very good service from them IF you talk to your local Banker and ask for help. 

 

Interesting links

Derivative exposure of Canadian Banks Here is a very interesting discussion thread on Canadian Business that will open your eyes and minds to the problem. 

The 24 trillion dollar derivatives monster Union Securities. Compares the derivative holdings at JP Morgan Chase with the Royal Bank of Canada

Wipe out on Wall Street Derivatives Credit Risk includes note on CIBC as an example of losses resulting from failure of counterparty in hedge investments used to back up sub prime loan derivatives. Scary. 

Derivative exposure detail table for 2009. Here is the bad news folks

The Financial Crisis explained. Here I explain what is going on right now. Its not pretty. Take all your pills first. I am not a drinker but perhaps you should have a shot of rum or port handy too. I guess a beer would do.

Derivatives  It would serve you well to read over the wikipedia entry on derivatives to better understand the problems we face today that our friendly banks are loath to talk about in public but which are keeping them up late at night drinking heavily. 

Bank of Canada workshop on Derivatives. You would need to be a brave person to read this one but some of it will sink in so go ahead! 

The Daily Bell from Switzerland containing much thought provoking content about derivatives including the points made here about the poor coverage by mainstream media.

SEC Plans Action against Royal Bank of Canada -Financial Post

Bankers Magazine Top Banks and Canada is not on the list

FREE TV ON YOUR PC! This is something your cable and phone company and satellite TV company is very worried about. Its legal. For a small one time fee you can escape from your monthly cable TV costs and have free access to over 3000 channels all around the world for TV, Radio and Music. You can play it right on your TV and it works anywhere in the world with an internet connection. Take a look at the link and see what we mean. Modern technology is so powerful most of us don't know what we have and so don't use it fully. You can change all that and save lots of money too!

Toronto Star article on Superintendent of Financial Institutions Julie Dickson who strongly supports Banks and Insurance Companies extracting maximum profits from consumers.

Shadow Bankers Interesting website about Canadian Banks with details on bank capital requirements.

Your Very First Billion -the .."best book ever published on business in Canada" by Marcie M. Farsea also available on Amazon.com+

Derivatives Collapse and China Gold and Sliver Markets by Bob Chapman  Oh dear just when you thought all was well in China - a lot of info here in an interesting style well worth the effort to read and digest 

The Derivative Mess by USA Gold - includes a Bob Chapman article

The Derivative Crisis ( 2002 vintage interesting the dangers were known then!)

Brooksley Born - warned of the derivative crisis ten years ago - I told you so...

About your Author I am an average Canadian retired fellow age 61 with a University degree and life experience across several industries including banking, government and business. This website is a hobby where I investigate bullshit in our society and where possible -suggest a better way. In the case of Banking in Canada and the Derivative Market I feel that there are many issues which are not being adequately covered in the traditional media so I have drawn your attention to some of these issues here. Although I have taken University courses in Economics I am not an Economist nor do I pretend to be one. I have worked in a bank at the branch level but have never worked in the head office level where derivative investments are made. 

I would be the first to admit that banking and the derivative market are very complex areas. My understanding is that the areas were so complicated that even very senior civil servants in regulatory positions and senior business people who one might have thought should have understood the situation required special briefings from experts so that they could even comprehend what the problems were and even then there were considerable differences of opinion on how to fix them or even if they could be fixed. 

It seems ironic that something that most folks have no idea exists is resulting in the destruction of their way of life. Ask a person on the street what a credit default swap is and they will look at you as if you were from Mars. Tell them that their employer or bank just went out of business because their derivative investments failed and they will just stare at you totally confused. And that's where we are today folks! Good luck to all of us!

I hope the website content has enlightened and entertained you! That and having fun are our objectives here. And who really knows-perhaps everything will get back to a new normal. Stranger things have happened!

Cheers! Your webmaster ron

To solve some of these and other problems we have started the MARCIE PARTY for the upcoming election. Just to stir things up somewhat...


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